Inside the Playboy Mansion: Secrets from a Butler | Dann Gib | Saw it All | Kim Hefner to Crystal Hefner | 17 Years at the PB Mansion |

In this engaging conversation, Echo Johnson shares his unique experiences as a butler at the Playboy Mansion from 2001 to 2018. He discusses how he got the job, his impressions of Hugh Hefner, and the dynamics of working in such a famous environment. The conversation delves into the various events held at the mansion, the evolution of technology in entertainment, and the introduction of the Mopar car show, highlighting the blend of celebrity culture and personal anecdotes that shaped his time there. In this engaging conversation, Echo Johnson and Corinna Harney-Jones delve into the rich history of the Playboy Mansion, sharing anecdotes about car shows, fight nights, and celebrity gatherings. They reflect on the impact of Crystal Hefner and her family on the mansion's legacy, as well as the decline of Hugh Hefner's health and the subsequent transformation of the property. The discussion highlights the importance of networking within the mansion's unique environment and concludes with thoughts on the mansion's haunting and its historical significance.

Takeaways:
Dann Gib worked at the Playboy Mansion for 17 years.
The mansion operated with a surprising level of conservatism.
Hefner had a unique way of checking on the butlers.
Every night at the mansion had a specific theme or event.
Dann made a trade for tours between Hearst Castle and the mansion.
The Mopar car show was a significant event at the mansion.
Hefner's interactions were always professional and polite.
The mansion's technology evolved from film to digital over the years.
Dann observed many similarities between Hefner and Randolph Hearst. The mansion hosted various car shows and events, showcasing its versatility as a venue.
Fight nights were a significant part of the mansion's entertainment history, attracting celebrities and athletes.
Dann emphasizes the rich history of the mansion, filled with fascinating stories and events.
The impact of Crystal Hefner and her family changed the dynamics of the mansion significantly.
Networking was crucial at the mansion, with many lasting relationships formed among staff and guests.
Hugh Hefner's health declined rapidly in his later years, affecting the mansion's operations.
The guest list at the mansion became more exclusive after Hefner's passing, limiting access to longtime friends.
The mansion underwent significant transformations after Hefner's death, altering its historical

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Background of the Butler
• 1:44 Journey to the Playboy Mansion
• 5:50 Life Inside the Mansion
• 8:45 Interactions with Hef and Staff Dynamics
• 13:05 Events and Entertainment at the Mansion
• 17:42 Political Discussions and Celebrity Encounters
• 21:16 The Evolution of Hef's World
• 22:43 The Authoritarian Nature of Hefner
• 24:43 The Arrival of Crystal
• 26:43 Mopar and Car Culture at the Mansion
• 33:51 Events and Special Occasions at the Mansion
• 40:17 Navigating Relationships and Guest Lists
• 45:45 Reflections on Celebrity Culture
• 48:45 The Warmth of the Mansion Family
• 51:45 Life at Playboy: A Unique Experience
• 54:50 Transitioning Roles: From Butler to Security
• 57:12 Hefner's Decline: A Rapid Change
• 59:01 Reflections on Hugh Hefner
• 59:57 The Transformation of the Mansion
• 1:01:34 The Historical Significance of the Mansion
• 1:04:58 The Aftermath of Hefner's Passing
• 1:08:14 The Dark Side of History
• 1:14:44 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans
• 1:16:34 Bye for now ... Thank you!

Transcript

Speaker: 1:01

Echo Johnson (00:37) Welcome back to the show everybody We are here today with a another butler from the mansion we know how much you guys love the butlers people love to hear what goes on inside the mansion so real quickly just thank you to our audience who continues to follow and support us. with that in mind to our listening audience, if you have not, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. because everything that you're listening to also has long format videos. subscribe, like, share, follow all of the above. Dann Gibb is with us today. So Dann was a butler at the mansion from 2001 till 2018 and stayed on after Hef had passed. So we're going to get into that as well. definitely want to talk about the MOPAR event. That's very interesting I didn't know anything of that and Brian Olea had shared that with me. Oh he did? Yeah, so we'll definitely get into that First and foremost, how did you get the job of a butler in playboy mansion West got it? Well in a nutshell I'm in the special event industry still today. 42 or 43 years But I had a brief interlude in the automotive industry. and while I was in automotive aftermarket, one of my customers, actually it one of my wife's customers, and then one of my customers, sort of, was a guy named Joe Plant. Joe, the bartender. Yes. Okay. And so at some point I said, hey, you know, I'm in the industry and I heard you're at Playboy. If you ever need another bartender, I do all different things within that industry. And so I think he just gave me probably the patented answer. He gives everybody. Sure, sure, sure. Sure sure sure I'll get you I'll get you in and I was just thinking about doing it as a side gig I didn't know anything about the house really. so he promised that a few times or just mentioned Yeah, if I if I need a bartender if someone calls and say, you know so years couple years passed and never happened, of course and and then another friend of mine from my industry Did get work up there Alan Loeb. I love Alan so much. He's the best But I don't remember how he got in. It's a big long chain. Everybody has, know, it's a small world, but everybody's tied together somehow So he said, why don't you come over and work with us? We could use experienced people in the industry of just fine dining, if nothing else. And so I kind of thought, OK, you mean like a training thing to help help train staff? he said, well, a lot of the staff is there just because they know somebody and they have some heavy hitters that come in there, consulate. folks and politicians or whatever. when they do their luncheons, it would help if we had some experienced people in there. Yeah, for sure. So that's how it happened. then he gave me Brian Olea number and I called Brian. He said, come on for Easter. So Easter, Big Egg Hunt was my first event there. Easter was your first event? wow. Easter, so big. That's cool. So that was a lot of fun. The impression I got was just help us help the staff, you know, do it the right way. Yeah, the right way. Do it the right way. Yeah, I can imagine, you know, the way the impression I have was, okay, so this butler may be, you know, the head of security's nephew and, you know, we know the nepotism or whatever it was. That's just the impression I got. So, so, so I started doing some events there and then, and that just kind of morphed into being a regular butler and then, and then being able to be in the house. Okay, just instead of just a party butler on the outside grounds, right? brought me in the house. So I never left the special event industry. I'm still in it So it was a it was a good experience. So when you say special event, Butler and versus like a butler that was in the house. So I guess the special event butlers they were just hired for parties and events. so for different companies you do different things, and a lot of his high-end events so so in other words I've come from Oscars Emmys backstage green rooms dressing rooms governor's balls all things like that so for the butlers there's just a lot of stuff that comes in just for the parties and then there's the Core staff that works inside the house. that's why it was kind of had a foot in both worlds. But every week I was there in the house So if I was going to have a bigger event outside the house for my industry, I would just not work that day. I wasn't a full time butler That's what the difference was. Yeah. So because there's only so many full time staff you can have. you get assigned certain days. So I had locked in days like card night and things like that every week no matter what. perfect. And then when anything else was happening, they just go through the list of who they can to be if it's luncheons or whatever it is. So, but I just make sure I was there every week. it seems like, Corinna don't you think as well, just from everybody that we've talked to and how they ended up at the mansion, it's always from usually somebody who worked there. Always. There was a couple, there was like Cindy Rakowitz who saw a classified ad in New York. And this was in the mid 90s. Yeah. And so there's a handful of people that are like, oh yeah, there was an ad in that's always so funny to me. Corinna Harney-Jones (05:23) There was an ad for me, it said Playmates wanted the talent scout, put an ad in the paper. somebody, my boyfriend at the time found it and was like, ⁓ look at this. Echo Johnson (05:30) Really? Interesting. Yeah, I guess, well, it's not like you were going to make a whole bunch of money. So you weren't there for the money. Corinna Harney-Jones (05:38) That's funny. Echo Johnson (05:42) So you're there for everything else. That's actually a really good point. I wasn't in charge and control, have anything to do with the events at the house. It was just the industry I came from. So, so when you're having an event or party, you're, I'm just, I'm just one of the butlers doing whatever Brian and the management needed. But I just had a lot of, a lot of years experience in the, in the party business. So it was just, it was just fun. I never cashed a paycheck in all those 17 years. direct deposit to my wife. So I made more money outside the house than in the house. And that's why I was there part time. Okay. Corinna Harney-Jones (06:12) Because the Echo Johnson (06:13) mean, people would ask you, you must make so much money. For people in my industry, it's just like a catering company. It was just, you were working at the Playboy Mansion. I was just older and wiser compared to the young kids that were Corinna Harney-Jones (06:19) Yeah. Echo Johnson (06:24) admiring the girls. No with the butlers. Avert your eyes. So we're going to have sexual harassment training at Playboy. Got it. Corinna Harney-Jones (06:30) Yeah. Echo Johnson (06:31) Isn't that funny? That actually came up on the show I did with Eric Mittleman and Farrell Hirsch about it was like HR department was there at a party, a holiday party. he had said something to the HR woman of like, are we going to have a problem? Because Hef was coming and there was a bunch of girls there. And Hef, as you know, does the open mouth kiss, right? I've never experienced it, but I've seen it. you've never. Thankfully. I've been behind the camera. Watching it. But yeah, there was obviously like he said at the end of the day, it was a conservative company to work for. And there was absolute like bylaws and parameters in which you had to coexist and operate. And that shit didn't fly. There was a lot more conservative there than people assume. Exactly. You'd think it was just be a raging liberal place, but it wasn't No. Not at all. it was run just as any other big corporation would be run for sure. So so anyway, that's how That's how it happened. And then brian I think what I think the way he approached me is do you want to come work in the house? And I didn't think that was a bigger deal, but I found out later like I think you kind of have to earn your way into the house. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, and and I was older Yeah, yeah and older because remember there was rules for Corinna Harney-Jones (07:39) trustworthy people. Echo Johnson (07:45) for employees going way back to the 70s. What were those rules? Well, I could tell you rumors. OK. A lot of the staff were gay. Yes. So we've been hearing. We actually heard that from Leland, that there was a lot of gay butlers. And that had to be with a certain person's insecurities. then so the general rumors I would hear is 70s, gay, 80s, Kim with the iron fist. And then after Kim, it opened up and then it was loose. Corinna Harney-Jones (07:59) Yeah. Echo Johnson (08:14) I'm like, I'm old, got kids, I'm married, I'm changing diapers right now. That actually makes sense. Yeah, I never considered that. Corinna Harney-Jones (08:15) ⁓ Kevin! I can't help it! Echo Johnson (08:22) I can imagine getting job as a butler and say, I'm flaming. And then when he gets there, he's chasing girls. And he's chasing girls, yeah, right? That's funny. I can imagine. So when was the first time that you, well, did you meet HEF then the first time that you were up there working? What was that like? Did you have an affinity for Playboy too? Like, did you love the magazine? What was your? I was the cliche, dumpster diving when you're in elementary school. Behind apartments. all the cliches Because I just loved the articles and so I do anything I could to read the article The articles were amazing. I didn't know there's pictures in the magazine Corinna Harney-Jones (08:55) loved the articles, yep Echo Johnson (08:55) just all the time. moving forward and coming back, my first car was a was a an awesome Mopar actually really rare car. And when I bought my first vehicle, they only have one sticker on it. And that was in 78. Oh, wow. In the back window - playboy. Really? And had it on there when you bought it? Yeah. Oh, how funny. How serendipitous. Little did you know you'd be working out the mansion. So so yeah, that's is how it happened. But with HEF it was all, it was also to him because I've worked with, you know, kings and queens and presidents. Yeah, you've done it all. There was zero intimidation factor for me to approach him and find out right away. And then you find it right away. It's you're, you're male, you're boobless, you're a necessary evil here. So, you know what I A necessary evil. like that. Corinna Harney-Jones (09:36) You're dead. It's like Leland made us realize how, you know, he would say he didn't want the butlers fraternizing. it's interesting the way he treated, you know, that is an interesting dynamic. Echo Johnson (09:49) No, no, yeah, you don't find us. Yeah. Even when you're with his camera, you could almost get the eye like, when you're looking at my girls, like, what the hell the Just the eye. No, yeah. Like, you knew him so well that you could tell. He would come check up on us. He had his ways of checking up on us. Did he? Yeah. So I was there every card night, and Wednesday nights was card night. And everybody in the house, like a beehive, you know the sliding slippers on the hard surface. You can hear him everywhere he is. Okay. You know, it's almost like he's on the move. He doesn't do anything that he doesn't have to do. And on Wednesday nights, a lot of times he would, he would decide to pick up the extra cards that weren't used on the table and, help us out and bring them to us. Oh, really? How cute. Yeah. So as he's handing them to you, like he says, you can use these for next week. You can just see them like scanning, like are there any playmates in? Hang out and talk to anybody who's staying upstairs. only thing they would do hang Butlers and talk to them. Right. So he had his ways of checking on us. Oh, that's interesting. That's a first. We haven't really heard that of him. Because you'd hear it. Corinna Harney-Jones (10:58) maybe Dann's the only one that made that observation and realized exactly what he was doing. Echo Johnson (11:02) That's another thing. True. Yeah. Yeah. You get your job. Well, actually in my job in special events, being in supervision, your whole job is to be aware of your surroundings to, to, to foreshadow what's going to be happening or you, or what the person's going to ask you for. mean, literally sometimes you're actually called a shadow. Like sometimes you're placed on one person for the whole event to shadowing them and watch what they want. Like, I, you know, doesn't matter if it's Nancy Reagan or Ted Turner, whoever your shadow all day. So if you, If you're wary of surroundings, and so HEF was easy, could hear them. Shuffling. Corinna Harney-Jones (11:37) did you do that with Nancy Reagan? Echo Johnson (11:40) Oh, no, one of the times with Nancy was just at Barry Diller's house. I use do Barry Diller's house. Oh, cool. actually, I had to go protect Nancy from Bill Maher, that rat. Bill Maher, he was always at the mansion. He's so anti-Reagan. And at Diller's, everybody shows up. Doesn't matter if it's De Niro, everybody shows up. And when they pulled Nancy Reagan up on the golf cart, he just... Corinna Harney-Jones (11:52) Who's your funny? Echo Johnson (12:04) went storming over there. So I went right behind him to see what he's gonna say. Nancy was gonna be mean to her. He didn't. He told me later what he told her, but Dillard had told me, says, I just said that my parents loved you. I wasn't gonna say he were a douchebag or something like that. Bill and we used to get in political. So what nights were you there? So card night that was the so for our audience explain like what? Was something yeah, so let's go through that because that's always a reminder for our audience Okay, so basically Monday nights would be manly night manly night. That's what happened his chosen cronies Come and they they order dinner and they argue on the table and then go and watch the movie. So it was the same people, you know? And they would occasionally come. And then Tuesday night kind of shifted. I remember Tuesday night was like a nightclub night, whatever the hot nightclub was in town. And then Wednesday night was always card night forever. And just like the meals were planned, like there's Thanksgiving night, same thing with his weekly schedule. And then they kind of morphed a little bit. Pre-Girls Next Door and post-Girls Next Door was a little bit different. It's kind of like the PR department would push him out there to get him out with the velvet ropes and the... on the nightclub scene, right? Really? And then as that changed, our movie nights, everybody used to think, oh, it's just Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And they're kind of morphed into Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Thursday through Sunday. then, man, the guys are going to watch a movie. But it just kind of morphed. So every night was something. Then became, I think it was Thursday, it became game night with the girls who come downstairs and playing Uno and things like that. But every night was something. Yeah, every night was planned. Just like think Friday night was older movies. Sunday was first run movie. We used have someone from the movie studios have to be there to run the cans to get the synchronized the films. And they would bring that up under lock and key, right? The studios. I heard from a lot of the guys say they used to put them down in the safe down the basement. Yeah, I believe that. Security guy would come with them. Yeah. Wow. And you have to pay the projectionist an ungodly amount of money. And when it went to Blu-rays and then that four or five hundred dollars to stab the guy. synchronize the cans, you know, went away. You know, do you have any idea if the software, like, because obviously how everything was built out in the mansion was to facilitate film, which was on a reel, you know, early on, but then everything went to Blu-ray. Was there an upgrade in the technology? I feel like I talked to, forget his name, did the whole- For at the house? Yeah. Yeah. The projection, the actual- They would have to, right? The old style projections went away. projectors. The projectors. Yeah, so they kept on morphing it to where our video department could handle it. The guys upstairs in video would be running the show. Yeah. So as butlers we'd sneak, know, just kind of stand behind and watch the films if we wanted to or go inside the room. Right. Yeah, so yeah, it kept on morphing. And also because we'd see all the Betamaxes being dumped in the can. You'd just see hundreds of Betamaxes being dumped in the trash. Yeah, right. That took a few, but nobody wants Nobody out there who you want a VHS tape. They used to put things If there's anything to go away, what beta max is, Corina? You do. Okay. Corinna Harney-Jones (15:08) Yes, yeah. Well, there isn't at the Betamax that was the before VHS. Echo Johnson (15:16) Yeah, it was the competition. was VHS versus beta and VHS won the show. So he had all the beta things. you did? No, we never did. But, know, right. Corinna Harney-Jones (15:19) Yeah, yeah, we had a beta max. We had a beta max. Yeah. And then laser disk and laser disk. That was one of my gifts when I got Playmate of the Year in 92. I got a laser disk player and laser disk movies. So it's like one and a car. Yeah. By then he was like, no, I'm just going to give them beta maxes. just like, would a Lexus SC Echo Johnson (15:35) Really? What about a car? What kind of car? What car did you get? Yeah, what kind of car? Corinna Harney-Jones (15:48) 300 or coupe. Yeah. Echo Johnson (15:49) Really? Because that kept on changing. What? person would get a Pantera race car. I think the very next year got a Mercury Capri. Who the hell got a Mercury Capri? Corinna Harney-Jones (15:59) like a... Well, I also think it had something to do with marketing because it was whatever the car of the year was and it wasn't always some fancy race car. You were saying you into some debates with Bill Maher. I wanna know what those political debates were. Echo Johnson (16:05) We're good. Right. ⁓ yeah. There's a lot of arguing and debating at the House of all sides, but I, Corinna Harney-Jones (16:21) yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what, you know, that's one thing Echo and I love that there was like open dialogue. There wasn't right or left when it came to his friends. And you probably observed that where he had a lot of very conservative. Yeah. See, isn't that interesting? Echo Johnson (16:33) Mostly right. Mostly right. Mostly right. Just not when he was sitting there. When he said, yeah, I could be arguing with his, with any, but any of his friends. then when HEF arrives, you just know Everything just stops Even, even if it was a bantering back and forth, that's getting a little bit heated. He didn't mind. He just wouldn't, he wouldn't interject ever. Corinna Harney-Jones (16:53) it. Echo Johnson (16:53) I used try to get Larry Elder to get in a fight with him. You said try to get. You know Larry Elder? No, who was he? Who is he? He ran for governor. He did. He's a big radio guy. But so he'd show up with a suit and tie on and no alcohol and all buttoned down and not get drunk. And so I would find vulnerable liberals. I try to get him in arguments with Bill was one. Corinna Harney-Jones (16:56) That's so funny! yeah, you run for governor of Yeah, that. I love Echo Johnson (17:19) liberals. This one, he is full of one-liners. He is so dang funny. we use to have screaming fights. I don't if you remember Jameson the butler. I love Jameson. He would try to fire me all the time. You're fired. Get out of here. yeah right. We had epic arguments all over the house when Big Daddy wasn't down. Yeah, I was the anchor for the right. Corinna Harney-Jones (17:23) love that so much. I love Jameson. with fire. Echo Johnson (17:43) That's funny, in 2001, that would have been right after HEF Kimberly had separated. She just went next door. Yeah, she was next door. who was the one that just leaving? The girl in one spot? on Trump's show. Brandy. Oh, Brandy. Yeah. Was she just leaving the house? Yeah, because she was playmate of the year 2000 Yeah. Of the numbering sequence for the girls. Yeah. This one's in the bedroom, two. So whatever. And so I think, Tina because of Corinna Harney-Jones (17:54) you Echo Johnson (18:11) her daughter Tatiana. Yeah, she was in because of her daughter and I'm sure remember who's moving out when I got there that would make sense that it was Brandy because yeah Brandy was like his his first major relationship after Kim so then you were there then through Watching the girls next door evolve into what was there before yeah before it and then you watched it all because Holly wasn't there that much before Yeah, she came in as like a seventh girlfriend and then worked her way up when the musical chair stopped She happened to be right there you know Not everybody wanted that spot, right? That is true. Not everybody wanted that spot and isn't it interesting the ones that did get it? Corinna Harney-Jones (18:51) about open mouth kiss, never got, I'm such a germaphobe. think whenever hef ever did that, would turn my head. No way. was like, aw. Echo Johnson (18:58) smart because it was like you are wet from your nose to your chin. I missed that one. took The second spot Tina left. was Tiffany that took it. So Tina left and then took it. I used to have to change her monkey's diapers. Wait, when did the twins leave then? Because the twins were there with Brandy. Corinna Harney-Jones (19:16) No, wait, when did the monkeys start wearing diapers? Echo Johnson (19:19) Well, yeah, she comes up to me. She comes up to me. Well, she got she got a little baby, a capuchin, whatever. And so she's like, you have children, right? Yeah. You're changing diapers, right? Yeah. Okay, great. So every three hours, I need you to come up and change his diaper and make us hot food. monkey. Yeah. And whose monkey was it? was Tiffany's. was Tiffany's. So Tiffany had bedroom two Corinna Harney-Jones (19:34) Interesting. Echo Johnson (19:40) screeching monkey and since I had children with diapers, I became the diaper changer So, which twin? Mandy and Sandy. They were already gone. Yeah, because it was Brandy, Mandy and Sandy that were actually the first major relationship because it was all three of them at one time after Kim. Corinna Harney-Jones (19:57) Like when the harem Echo Johnson (19:59) Well, it was like 10. I think we're, I think we're up to 10 in the house. Brandy, Mandy and Sandy and they were great together. I love that, that threesome. They were awesome and they all loved HEF and to this day, ⁓ adored that man. and then is when it started getting like, yeah. Yeah. was, it was like Tiffany and Sheila and Isabella and that whole crew. It was that time before, before the numbers started dwindling. Just like with the Girls Next Door, just like musical chairs, when it finally came about, those are the three that were there. It wasn't plotted and planned for them. Because remember, it was with E before A &E or A &E before E. It was A &E, I think, before E is what it was going to be. I even heard... Oh, the Girls Next Door was going to be on E? I think it was just with them because Alan Burns, was his Prometheus production. right. I'm just... Corinna Harney-Jones (20:32) Just timing. Echo Johnson (20:53) Spit balling it here, but I think maybe he was shopping it for networks. And I even heard at one point that they were thinking about doing it on the butlers, is what I heard. Yeah, that's kind of been my understanding, I think, just from talking to Brian Oela that originally that show was kind of pitch, well, it was going to be called HEFS World, right? And so it was going to be more like focused on like the inner workings of the mansion and whatnot. then it evolved into Girls Next Door Girls lot of the things, just like when people talk about doing you know, tell all books and stuff you can't be besides slanders and liables and all those kind of things. The funniest stuff wouldn't have been able to be aired. Or they wouldn't. We wouldn't be able to say the funniest stuff. Right... As far as HEF knew it was all yes or no, sir. mean, right. He only used my in all those years I was there. He only used my name once or twice. That's what every Butler says. Yeah. Corinna Harney-Jones (21:39) Apparently, apparently Leland never he was there longer than you he never even HEF never addressed him by his name ever Echo Johnson (21:44) Yeah. Yeah. What I understand is that he would have the Rolodex and if there was a butler like for me I think say the older guy with the Go-TEE or or he goes through the Rolodex that guy or whatever. I mean he was always super polite, but it was always yes, sir. No, sir. him. It was always please. Thank you. Yeah, but it was That place could have completely wound out of control at any time. ⁓ like the fine blue line of control Yeah, so if he if he posied up to butlers, it'd be just game on. Yeah So with him it was yes, sir. No, sir. Yeah You can do anything wrong with Keith and all them or whatever family drop the F bombs, we could hang up on people if they were rude and he would back you up for everything or the house would back us up. But when it came to HEF it was all business. Just what I mean, there were moments. of course. that's how that's how that's how it had to be operated. If I'm putting his watch on his wrist or helping him do something, you there's we have those little moments. But in general, policy wise, it was it was pretty stark employee employee. Corinna Harney-Jones (22:29) you kind of captain of the ship. was the authoritarian. He really was pretty authoritarian. Echo Johnson (22:46) Yeah, he just, yeah, it was, yeah, it was just all business. Plus you got to figure we were just another butler. at least they didn't get busted smoking weed out in the guest house like butlers from the seventies. we have one or two. Yeah, I mean, it's bound to have two other apologizing. A little alcohol or something like that. yeah, cause that place was always on the edge of, All those ingredients mixed together could have just been Yeah, a huge implosion. Yeah. Really I am so curious. What was that like to have like all, seven to 10 girlfriends living in the house when HEF had that huge harem? it rowdy? was busy. busy. just busy. Yeah, busy. know, if someone, if a group was out partying or something, it could get really busy. if they came home at night, especially the night Butlers are like, night so when they come home at night it's gonna be yeah yeah yeah I had to yeah yeah well you remember well but there's part of our job was taking care of the girls of course and I'm the dad with two daughters so I was like hyper vigilant well if you're on a party and you see you could just see us something that doesn't look right yeah you don't let it go yeah so same with the girls I've had my hand on the forehead while they're Corinna Harney-Jones (23:38) Yeah, please share. What were you thinking? Echo Johnson (23:58) losing their dinner and toilet because I'm the old dad or whatever. Looking out. Good job, It's part of the job, right? Well, not necessarily. It was like you knew how to navigate that. I had other motives when I was there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's what it comes back to, full circle. So I want to know about Corinna Harney-Jones (24:03) aww Echo Johnson (24:21) So then you also were there when Crystal came in and the girls left. I want to talk about that. Yeah, we saw, remember we saw her at the memorial service and everybody was shocked that she even showed her face. She lasted what, HEF hour? Less than that, I think it was like. Did everything change? He's all, mm-hmm. If you label someone as high maintenance, you could have different interpretations or definitions of that. So as time went on, She had a lot of requests. She did? Like paper-listed requests and food and this and that. Everything changed. of fact, yeah, before she like, yeah, sometimes butlers would have to remind girls that I'm Mr. Hefner's butler, not yours. I'm here to take care of him It's not just juggling, you know, five dogs as you go out or 10 dogs. I remember I was, I had Mary or somebody said, Hef's coming down to approve the wedding table. Cause we had set the wedding table in the great hall for how it was going to be for big wedding. Corinna Harney-Jones (24:58) She enjoyed having servants. Echo Johnson (25:21) the runaway bride wedding so what so I hear this I hear the shuffle come down the hall I'm like, okay here comes HEF and crystal and it's just HEF coming down And so he came down and said sir. This is what we got basically He said I'd like the you know, I like the centerpiece lower So people can look over it and talk about I said are we you know, I kind of went are we waiting for crystal? And even later on at a dinner Christy Hefner asked Crystal what the colors were going to be of your wedding. She said, I don't know. It wasn't like that. was it kind of obvious that her heart wasn't in it? Oh, yeah. You could tell. Yeah. And then it wasn't long after that because I was also, that's the night that she left. That she walked out. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that was odd. So what did you guys do when the wedding didn't happen because That was all administrative stuff. I other than that table, that was just a sample that they set up for him to approve or her to approve. OK. and that didn't happen. Everybody was shocked. Okay, we're going to come back to Crystal. tell our audience about Mopar and how long that went on, Brian brought that up? Brian. Mr. Olea, he's a big fan. Yeah, late to the Mopar game. Brian just found himself in driving a Challenger so that we kind of just bring him into the Mopar fold. He's not like a knuckle busting grease monkey wrench turner. Right, he just likes the... He liked that Challenger. Yeah, I like Challengers too. So Mopar stands for, and it's old school, it's been around... the 30s. since the 30s. So Chrysler and General Motors and all them, Chrysler owned... Dodge and Plymouth. Back in the 30s, actually it was the parts division. So if you went into buy parts, it was Mopar. Well, then when the 60s and 70s and everything changed when they had a racing division that supported anybody who bought a Dodge or Plymouth. So as a high school kid, I would go into the dealership and say, hi, I have a 1969 Charger. didn't buy from them. This is 1978 or whatever. I would like my charger to go this fast in the quarter mile drag. They'd open the books and say, okay, you this, that, this, that. And they'd swap out the parts to achieve that. purchase it. So you can buy a race car already built or you can build one and you had help with Chrysler. So that's Mopar. In a nutshell. Chevy really didn't have it. didn't have it. So the slang just became your Mopar guy. what did that take to get that approved at the mansion and like what did that look like how often was it that sprung out of tours? You're allowed to have only a certain amount of tours. ⁓ some some abused them a lot more than others And so I would I would give a lot of tours. Never for money Corinna Harney-Jones (27:40) Mm-hmm. Echo Johnson (27:44) I was doing favors. We did with Chef Carter, would do the events at Hearst Castle. They'd bring the Playboy staff up for Anne Hearst, the granddaughter at Hearst Castle. And so I would be doing, I would be trading. So right when I got to Hearst Castle, Chef Carter had me staff it for anybody he didn't have. And I went right to the first guy I saw working there and said, who's the oldest, that's Chuck. He's been there forever. Hi Chuck. I'm Dann. I'm HEFs' Butler. I'd like to make a trade. I'd like to come to your place here with you and I will have you come to Playboy with me. So I made a deal where I'd give him four tour for four and their employees are allowed once a year pool party. You've been to Hearst Castle with all the pools? I have never been. about Hearst Castle, can't even put a price on the stuff. You can't calculate the money there. Really? And so my theory, I'm a historian on the side. write history and stuff like that. So the parallels between Randolph Hearst and HEF are like right there. So my theory is HEF imitated Randolph Hearst. Corinna Harney-Jones (28:28) Yeah, that's pretty Echo Johnson (28:43) Interesting. That's my I don't care. That's my and that's my observation. If you dig down. Randolph Hearst was everything from running for president, but he's the big publisher, right? King of publisher, all the magazines and Hearst publishing and Patty Hearst. So Anne Hearst is her sister. Anyway, so when I when we're working there, we had carte blanche to walk everywhere where you can't go on tour. mean, there's buzzers on the carpets were literally going man, this bed's comfortable. And they're just nervous. nellys because we're there working for Anne Hearst. Right. Corinna Harney-Jones (29:10) I got Echo Johnson (29:10) Yeah. So I went, I went to the guy and I said, I, I, I heard about your event and he goes, okay, so we'll swap. So, when I, when I was there, I'd look around the castle too. Gee, there'd be a phone directory by every phone. There'd be pads of paper by every phone, by every directory. There'd be pencils and paper by everyone. like the mansion. What's Randolph Hearst famous for? Big publisher. Corinna Harney-Jones (29:28) Interesting. Echo Johnson (29:30) a mover and a shaker. The first guy to have a zoo. So he had a zoo. And what was What was the famous for? If you go back to YouTube, all those photos are of the celebrities and other people using his tennis court, tennis court for events, tennis courts, zoo. Anyway, the similarities just kept on falling. the the mansion to me reminded Hearst Castle was like, well, there's this and that's right. And and one of the most famous thing did is the celebrities would use his movie hall inside the house. Randolph Hearst was all about movies and people would use his house for movies, tennis. Corinna Harney-Jones (29:52) You're happy now. Echo Johnson (30:05) swimming, but he didn't swim. So he wasn't into tennis swimming So it's movie stars, movies at the house, tennis parties, look at all the papers. Right. So there are a lot of similarities. too. Gee, there'd be a phone directory by every phone. There'd be pads of paper by every phone, by every directory. There'd be pencils and paper by everyone. Just like the mansion. What's Randolph Hearst famous for? Big publisher. Corinna Harney-Jones (30:24) Interesting. Interesting. Echo Johnson (30:29) a mover and a shaker. The first guy to have a zoo. Oh, so polar bears. So he had a zoo. And what was What was the famous for? If you go back to YouTube, all those photos are of the celebrities and other people using his tennis court, tennis court for events, tennis courts, zoo. And the way there's not a big game. And then the stuff around the house. Anyway, the similarities just kept on falling. Yeah, yeah, you saw it. it was like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but the house, but the the the mansion to me reminded Hearst Castle was like, well, there's this and that's right. And and one of the most famous thing did is the celebrities would use his diet or his movie hall inside the house. Randolph Hearst was all about movies and people would use his house for movies, tennis. Corinna Harney-Jones (31:00) You've seen Citizen Kane, right? The movie. You're happy now. Echo Johnson (31:25) swimming, but he didn't swim. He wasn't big. So he wasn't into tennis swimming river. So it's movie stars, movies at the house, tennis parties, look at all the papers. Right. So there are a lot of similarities. That's really interesting. Right. Were you a world famous publisher? You're a famous. I mean, the similarities are just like, and that would be HEFs' era too, as far as how important Randolph Hearst was. Corinna Harney-Jones (31:39) And with King Solomon in the Bible. That's what I always say. It reminds me of King Solomon. Echo Johnson (31:52) for HEFs' generation. Yeah, exactly. That's a really cool observation. How wild. but that makes sense. Corinna Harney-Jones (31:59) No, that is, a dream and emulate, it's like even with all of the movies that he loved, you can kind of how they shaped him, yeah. Echo Johnson (32:03) Yeah. Maybe. I And you could see all those on videos. can see the tennis games. can see the movies. That's part of the tour. go in part of the tour is the movie room and the tennis court and the pools, indoor outdoor pools. Corinna Harney-Jones (32:20) See, and I imagined, I really did. It really shocked me that they didn't turn the mansion into a museum. Echo Johnson (32:29) wouldn't allow it. The homeowners association, the Holmby hills, they would never allow it. You know about like a Graceland? Mm-hmm. They would never allow it. Corinna Harney-Jones (32:34) Yeah, yeah. Like how they did her castle. Echo Johnson (32:40) Yeah, no, the neighbors, the neighbors would never, never, never allow that. And Hurst Castle is actually owned by the state. It's a state park. It was donated to the state. So the state runs it. Corinna Harney-Jones (32:44) Yeah. Okay. And I never would have known that. So that makes sense. Echo Johnson (32:53) Ever seen, ⁓ when you're on the way to Vegas, you know, when you go past Peggy Sue's, you see that Calico mine ghost town up in the side. That's also a state park that Walter not a Knott's Berry Farm built. And he donated it like Hearst Castle. He just donates it to the state and becomes a state park. You should stop on the way there. It's an old cool. Okay. Well that's Walter Knott's thing. Yeah. He built that. And then, and then he built the one that he built that before Knott's Berry Farm. Corinna Harney-Jones (33:12) I've been to that. I've... Wow. Echo Johnson (33:21) And they built Knott's Berry Farm to look like that mine on the way to Vegas. I love it. History right here. That's very cool. So that's Hearst Castle. So I did more than one year up there with Chef Carter. He would he put on it was a big celebrity event. Dinner for like 50 or five couples on the big. how long were the cars on property at the at the mansion? Back to Mopar. We got deep into Hearst. Corinna Harney-Jones (33:44) And that was quarter mile. Now the Mopar thing is quarter mile racing, right? Echo Johnson (33:50) Well, Mopar is just a slang for all things high performance with Dodge and Plymouth. The Mopar show came about because I'm in the hobby. have my old Dodge Challenger and I got to know the owners of the magazine, John Ellis and Rob Wolf. And so over the years we became friends and when they're here from Louisiana, the magazine's out Louisiana, I'd go hang out with them. And then I said, you guys want to do a tour? And he oh, of course. Favour, so. Corinna Harney-Jones (33:54) Okay. Echo Johnson (34:17) bartering favors, but this was just a favor. And so while we were walking around, at some point, Robin Johnson, man, we should have a car show here. There you go. And they go, is that possible? Like, I don't think so. we so then I found out there was never a car show there. Yeah. But my ace in the hole was Hank Fawcett you Hank. Of course, So for our audience, Hank Fawcett another long term employee that was there for decades, if not from the beginning of when HEF had bought that mansion. But Hank was responsible for building and doing everything you can possibly imagine for all the events, for all the luncheons, for the parties, everything. And I mean, he was so handy and crafty. days, Yeah. Back to Chicago days? Because he was, I sold a lot of pictures of him in Chicago. ⁓ shit. I never knew that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's super cool. He was like Mr. Powerful on the property, but he wasn't the general manager. He became general manager when John Luther. Corinna Harney-Jones (34:51) Yeah. You Echo Johnson (35:14) Okay, when John Luther left. So the joke is he took a step down in power when he became a general manager. But anyway, so Hank Fawcett is a car guy. Okay. And he at the time he was looking for a motor car because he had at the Mableton house across the street, he keep, you know, a couple of cars there or whatever. So he had me looking for an old motor car and we became closer that way. So so I knew Hank was Hank was the ace. Corinna Harney-Jones (35:20) I'm sorry. Echo Johnson (35:36) in the hole and so Hank was the one that cut the red tape and maneuvered the way and so then they say yeah let's do it let's do a show and if you remember that that do remember the lawn was a sunken that's a sunken English garden that's that's a very that's an English sunken garden they were all over Holmby Hills and Beverly Hills that's that's a thing when you'd when you would drive up the front lawn remember the lawn was sunk yeah yeah you said the playmate Olympics where they fill it with water yeah yeah anyway so Corinna Harney-Jones (35:47) Yes. Echo Johnson (36:02) So the first couple shows, I think was that the cars were just put on an angle inside there. Oh, how cool. Inside there. So he got approval to bring cars on the property and have a car show. And so we just ran with it. And one show turned into two and the three. But at that time, the grass would always have to be replaced in the back from the parties. It would die. I would imagine. And when they switched to AstroTurf. And so they took all that dirt from the back when they made AstroTurf and they leveled that front lawn, became flat. Whoa, they leveled the front lawn. And then they would teasingly joke me that it was my fault because if we went and brought the car shows that were all digging divots in the... it was was a joke. Because I'm all about the history. Actually, I tried to write a book on the property. so you don't ruin the sunken garden. Right. I know. They made it flat and delivered with all the dirt from back. Yeah. Although we just did the Mopar shows there. And then I think the last one was called Muscle Cars at the Mansion because we wanted to bring in... Corinna Harney-Jones (36:51) Thanks Echo Johnson (36:58) the Chevy money and the Ford money guys. Got it. Wanted to broaden it. So it happened for a while then. What did we do? Four, three or four? Okay. Something like that. and then from that, they did two other car events. And one was a friend of a friend, and he asked about it. And then he got his cars up there and he bought some Mustangs up there. And then they had the gumball 2000, the coast to coast races. So, but our show was the first car thing there. Okay. Yeah. Cause we can only fit. I think in total we had like 30 because there some on the driveway in the back and charged a lot of money. Yeah, I bet. You know, that's also something that I don't necessarily know if our audience knows or not, but the mansion was used a lot for special events. didn't have to be like a Playboy event. So it was always rented out. It was a venue. It was a venue. Yeah. Just not inside the house. Yeah, exactly. So people say, I've been to a Playboy party. It was a sausage fest. Oh, no, you were not. were not HEFs' some corporation that Corinna Harney-Jones (37:55) No one can do the parties like HEF did if you were in and out of mansion. Echo Johnson (37:58) Yeah, he controlled the guest list. yeah, so it could be just another corporation or golf scrambles. I would tell people if they say they really want to get in, just join the golf scramble and you'll get the party before the golf scramble. Yeah. So if you really want to see the house. But on that people would rent the outside grounds and then, or they'd come in through like our big fight nights. I did fight nights there. I was in the ring doing the ring girl thing. Nice. Every year I was there. Yeah. Fun. So I worked fights outside of Playboy. Corinna Harney-Jones (38:01) ⁓ no. Echo Johnson (38:25) Okay. Yeah, I can't let the girls. When you've been the ropes open, you can't let the girls ears or their heels hit because HEFS right there. Imagine if the ears would have hooked that rope. Oh my God. Can you imagine? Oh, there goes Holly's ears. goes Holly's ears. Oh no. It's not easy getting in there. Right. are tall. Right. And the heels. Right. And it's unstable. And now you got what six inch hooks. Corinna Harney-Jones (38:37) Bye. Echo Johnson (38:49) I never saw one of those fight nights. I was like, no, I saw pictures and whatnot, but because I never I didn't live in LA. So that's why. Yeah. All this all the athletes. I mean, all that could knew that the night before the ESPY awards in LA. I was for the ESPY before the night before. So to tell their wives that I got to go to L.A. baby, it's because they know the night before is that playboy. Yeah. Definitely. I got to hit that up. Yeah. Because HEF was a huge fight then. Corinna Harney-Jones (38:53) When did you start seeing? Echo Johnson (39:15) I didn't know that. you didn't know that he was a huge fight? I had no idea. was like one year we'd have best damn sports show guys put it on. Next year it'd be Sugar Ray Leonards production or Golden Boy, all the different production companies. Okay. Because he was a huge fight man. And then one year they talked him into MMA. So we had Strike Force come in. Wow. And he hated it. Because I wasn't boxing. No, I think the joke was I think he said, why are those men wrestling on the ground? He didn't get it. No, and you couldn't see because they go on the ground right away. Right, right, right. where you're looking up to actually watch a boxing match didn't come here to watch two guys. HEF being so turned off by that. Like, what the hell is this? I'm not down with this. So that was one and done. Strike force. Corinna Harney-Jones (39:54) What year was that, that they started doing them. Echo Johnson (39:57) Oh boy, I'm terrible with years Strike force or just fight? Well, fight nights were every year. So I did my first one, I think in 2001 or two, and then I was there doing it every year since then. So fights were every year. And one time they moved to the front of the yard, it was always in the back. But the strike force was probably around 2011 something like that. Didn't fly. Corinna Harney-Jones (40:17) Yeah, okay. Aw. No, man. No. Echo Johnson (40:20) Men wrestling. Man wrestling, Corinna Harney-Jones (40:22) they destroyed the sunken garden and it's all your fault yeah because yeah Echo Johnson (40:25) Yeah, and they blame it on me because they knew it would hurt me because I'm the historian. didn't want anything to change. Yeah, but it was lot of fun. every year and there was always some kind of events going on. always, certainly we're learning more and more as we go along. interviewing the guests and it's just like it's endless. It's fascinating. You know, it's like Manny or Hank. Like if you're talking about the monkeys, he'd say, yeah, you know, those weren't caged before, they just ran free. Like really? says, yeah, then they go over to the neighbor's yard and the neighbor called, get your monkeys back. No way. Monkeys ran free. That's what Manny told me. Yeah. Wouldn't be the tree monkeys. Yeah, it would have been the spider monkeys. That's interesting how wild. That's what Manny told me. Corinna Harney-Jones (40:41) Yeah, he really is. The spider monkeys? How cute, Echo Johnson (41:03) Well, mean, he was there from the beginning, too. So yeah, there's so much history there. And then of course, I'm interested in the original history of it, but it didn't fly because I couldn't get photos. publisher requires a certain amount of photos, and they don't exist. Or they exist. Some may exist, but it's in the HEF Foundation, not in the corporate archives. The HEF Foundation. Corinna Harney-Jones (41:21) Not a whole other story. would love there. There are so many interesting things that are Echo Johnson (41:27) Yeah, there's place is full of history. Yeah, I guess gosh, who knows what the HMH foundation it's all just so sad what has occurred with Amanda's got control. I don't if she still is but yeah, she is. Okay, so a lot of stuff went into that foundation that of course wasn't sold off or that crystal didn't throw out the window into the trash can. Yeah. And she did go into the trash can. Wait, are you serious? Like literally she was just like chucking shit out trash. Corinna Harney-Jones (41:50) ⁓ she threw a lot. ⁓ my gosh, I didn't know she threw things away. Echo Johnson (41:57) That's. That's unreal to clean the house. I think it was on a weekend. I've asked Brian or something about that. wasn't there, but. Corinna Harney-Jones (42:01) And there were historic, like even letters that she probably had no idea were historic. Echo Johnson (42:07) Can you imagine? Because office personnel would have been protecting it. I heard it was a weekend or whatever time of the day and literally they were just filling up. It's like literally like HEF passed and then it was like clear out the mansion. We'll have some subpar memorial up at the mansion for the few select guests. I mean, Lacey was telling me it was an absolute a joke. And I'm sure this was all crystal saying we're going to do this, this and that. And that's it. was. Corinna Harney-Jones (42:16) you Echo Johnson (42:33) Nothing HEF would have ever done nor would you ever expect to have something of that low caliber at the mansion? I would have been crying if I was there. Well, I would have snuck in Yeah That's crazy did let me ask you when did Did crystals mother? Move into the mansion not when she first got there, right, but eventually she moved in there Yeah, it all started changing There would never be any siblings or parents Corinna Harney-Jones (42:45) Yes! Echo Johnson (43:02) And then when it was down to the three, that all started changing. This is my brother. This is my mom. This is my stepdad. two nights here. Yeah. So, yeah. So she of all the family, she was the one. So it's my understanding, too, then, that Crystal took over the guest list. And there was a lot of people then that were swiftly taken off the guest list. And for our audience, again, we've spoken about this, that there was a 24-hour guest access list. Not everybody was on that list, obviously. And then anybody else, you would have to get approval from the office to come onto the grounds. Even including myself, I would have to call if I was going to go. It was always a yes it's not a problem. But with that said, there was a key group of people that had 24 hour access. were all HEFs' closest friends and confidants. And then they slowly just started. They'd show up and they weren't allowed on the grounds. you DNA. That's in your label. And when they look up on the computer, it says DNA. They said DNA on there. Do not allow. And some of these were people that have been there for years. And even it goes back to way back at the house where if you did something wrong, just you could be a celebrity, you did something wrong, you're DNA. I had a couple of celebrities over the years ask me to help them get back in. I think one was Bo Hopkins. Remember that guy from American Graffiti, the head guy? A lot of the guys would, they do something wrong and they get a DNA. Corinna Harney-Jones (44:15) Yeah, he was in my movie that my first friend was Echo Johnson (44:23) Yeah, I mean if you got in trouble, mean and that also would apply to playmates Corinna Harney-Jones (44:26) It would have been so Echo Johnson (44:28) like to see, yeah, he just recently passed. I would like to see the DNA list would be interesting. Yeah, no shit. Like who was on the do not admit list. Right. Corinna Harney-Jones (44:32) Yes! to know what they did too. Like I want to know Echo Johnson (44:38) something. He got rowdy on something, but I would see it because he had seen about the car shows. Yeah. Corinna Harney-Jones (44:40) I can't even picture him. I can't picture him doing anything, but that's... Echo Johnson (44:45) No, he could have been anything. He could have gotten fired. He could have been anything. Who knows what it was, he wanted back in and there was, I'm trying to think of other people that ask me over the years if they can get back in. I was just hyper attentive to all his friends and try to build my own relationships. And then attentive to the guests like I would be in my industry. And a lot of times the dividends paid off. Oh, you're what? Oh, I'm an executive for Oakley. Thanks for your help. Corinna Harney-Jones (44:49) Yeah! Echo Johnson (45:13) pick out anything you want. Got a business card, go down, drive to Oakley, pick out the most expensive, meet another guy. A guy from Johnny Rockets, a guy from Johnny Rockets goes, give me a your address. You really helped me out tonight. He sent me a gold card and I thought it was like for a free burger something. No, it's all the free food you want for a full year. Oh, wow. That's cool. I love that. The perks. As much food. You go in a restaurant with your friends and just order whatever you want, any restaurant. And my wife got ahold of that. Corinna Harney-Jones (45:34) It's tough. Echo Johnson (45:42) I would present the card at Johnny Rockets anywhere, Vegas, even Vegas. Who are you? And then general managers would come Because not many people had it. Yeah. They said, we need to know who you are. And here's my name. And then they take the card back. they're like, and so you can see the waiters like just whatever he says. Wow, that's cool. didn't realize. And my wife, my wife spent thousands of dollars on that card. Yeah. Because she, oh, it's my neighbor's kid's birthday. We're all going to Johnny Rockets. Corinna Harney-Jones (45:45) Yeah! Echo Johnson (46:09) You know, this is making a lot more sense, actually, of you even prefacing it with when we started the interview that you were older, you'd been in the industry, and you really understood how to navigate that and thus then develop your own relationships, which is I mean, at end of the day, we all know that like, networking at the mansion, that was incredible, you know, if you understood how to do that. So because a lot of the butlers were Corinna Harney-Jones (46:29) Mm-hmm. Echo Johnson (46:33) Very young, most of them are young. Shiny objects running around and that's what they see. Yeah, so that's neat. I still have the friendships I still have in the house. So if it's a movie night, Vince Buglioso, Manson's prosecutor, he would grab me and we'd go outside and I'd just get earful for long time with people like him. But they're so interesting to talk to. And so I would have like my collection of friends that were HEFs' friends and I never would like the George Barris's with all the cars and stuff like that. And so I worked hard on the relationships. as you should, mean, You never get that kind of caliber and group of people together. just don't see That's why the money didn't matter. wasn't the money. That's right. Yeah, that's something we talk about all the time that there was no expense spared in any way in any facet of the business from shooting our centerfolds to, you know, talking to Playboy Entertainment and their budgets that they had. mean, it just there was so much there. Yeah. You walk in the backyard and Burt Bacharach's hanging out with Tommy Lee from Motley Crue Right. So especially a lot of the younger listeners to got to understand that for baby boomers, especially, is like Candyland. because all these people mattered. You you mentioned some of his names and they just like, I don't know if you're talking about like, dude, that's. don't you agree, Corinna, we were the right age because I knew who all HEF's friends were. And that was just from I mean, I would watch old movies with my mom growing up. I knew who they were, but anybody like today, they're like, who is that? They have no idea. Corinna Harney-Jones (48:01) Well, did, I remember I did my first commercial in the fourth grade here in Las Vegas with Dick Van Patten. So they were just, I mean, talking about coming full circle and they, and then they were stellar humans, you know, even his sons, I really think were very, they weren't ever seedy or, you know, they were just. Echo Johnson (48:09) Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's like, Yep. Yeah. Super nice. Nope. That whole family was nice. Corinna Harney-Jones (48:26) respectful and that's what made me feel comfortable at the mansion when I started meeting. I'm like, my gosh, these are just nice people. Echo Johnson (48:35) It's cool to go to work and say, you know, I'm gonna go there and talk to Buzz Aldrin. Right. There's things I want to say to him. It was way where you can because because where I work outside of the house, you can't do that. Right. I mean, I do a lot of the homes where you can do it in their homes. Celebrities homes, they let their hair down, they're drinking and you're there till three in the morning. But at any venues, you know. Corinna Harney-Jones (48:39) Yeah! my- Echo Johnson (48:59) Playboy was just fun, that's all. Playboy was fun. It was all right. Corinna Harney-Jones (49:01) Really what it was relaxed like there was a very relaxed environment that luxuriously relaxed Echo Johnson (49:06) Yep. was fun. Animals. For sure. a high level of expectation from you, but it was like you do your job. I that's why employees stayed for 20, 30, 40, 55 years. Pat Lacey was there for 55 years. I mean, when you said the one. Corinna Harney-Jones (49:21) And there wasn't anything nefarious in the sense that, you know, everybody's big boys and girls, you knew it was an adult magazine and that he was the original playboy. You know, you knew that you already knew that. So nothing was shocking. But I never, of course, he was married to Kimberly at the time, but I never saw anything shocking. Like everything was, I felt protected. You and I have talked about this echo where we just really felt and Echo Johnson (49:28) Right. Right. Exactly. Corinna Harney-Jones (49:50) even with the butlers and you felt like everyone was family. I felt very comfortable. So he knew how to pick you, Dann. knew how Echo Johnson (49:58) Yeah. Corinna Harney-Jones (49:59) pick you. Echo Johnson (49:59) was, well, it was safe. was like people have let their imaginations run wild, but you know, that's their imaginations running wild. You know, and maybe certain things happen during different decades, whatever. People just let their imaginations run wild. It's like, you know what? No way. That's not how If someone is doing something bad, there's a good chance it was because they thought they should because they were there or something or, you know what mean? I'll give you a perfect example. I don't think I've shared the story with you, Corinna. Corinna Harney-Jones (50:05) Yeah, I'm sorry. No. Yeah. Echo Johnson (50:23) I don't think so. And this also for our audience, here we go. So this is a perfect example of like, because everybody assumes that either you have to sleep with HEF to be a playmate, or if you're at the mansion, you're expected to go up to his room, whatever, right? So I would always stay there because I was always in LA working. I lived in Austin and they were so, you know, so gracious because sometimes I would stay for like a month at a time. was like, it was great. So when I would stay, and this is during Tina, Jordan, I guess it would have been Tiffany, was like a couple of them. HEF would ask me to go out. And so a couple of times I went out with him and the group and we went out in the limo. So this one time Stacey Sanchez and I went out with them and we're driving back. Stacey are on this side and Hef is on that side with the girls, right? So. We leave the club, we get in the limo and I don't know who got down on their knees and started giving Hef a blowjob, right? no, I don't want to see this. So you just see her head bobbing up and down and he's like smirking and I'm like, cheers. So we get home to the mansion and we get out and he was so sweet. He even helped me out of the car. Corinna Harney-Jones (51:19) What? Echo Johnson (51:31) And he's like, would you like to come upstairs? And I said, no, thank you so much. I said, I had such a great time. Thank you so much for taking me out. And it was okay, sleep well, kiss on the cheek, that's it. So that goes back for our audience again. if you wanted to go have sex with HEF you could, but if you didn't want to, it wasn't like you were never gonna be allowed to come back or anything. So it's very like mistaken, you know, idea. Corinna Harney-Jones (51:45) Yeah. Echo Johnson (51:55) it would be like us walking in the room. You would see stuff. Or his room, during the Doritos or no, Fritos and Bean Dip era, after they come to nightclub, you're constantly bringing up drinks, trays of drinks and chips and chips. And the door swings open wide. Corinna Harney-Jones (51:56) you did not! No, no, no. Echo Johnson (52:13) You're like, I may or may not see something. would look at one of my favorite nap spots. All employees had favorite nap spots. really? Mine was under HEFs' bed, not because it was under HEFS bed downstairs, but because that was just the most it's a leopard couch. Olea has that couch now. he does. Because that's behind it because they stopped rolling up the movie screen up and down because it would wreck the screen. So they left it down. So the employees knew the couch is behind there Right. oh so you would go, oh okay. As long you don't start snoring, because the Gestapo security guys would come around, but that's under HEFs' bed. that's funny. So if I'm under there trying to sleep and I could hear after nightclub night, you'd be like, that's Bridget. Yeah. you're like, Corinna Harney-Jones (52:43) No. Wow Echo Johnson (52:57) That's super funny. mean, so many spots really to kind of like escape to if you knew where they were. So that was your spot to go take a nap. Yeah, could hear the phone in the pantry. Right, Just kind of close your eyes. that's cool. There was a lot of nooks and crannies around there. Yeah, there were Corinna Harney-Jones (53:13) security would get on you if they caught you. Echo Johnson (53:17) It depends on who it was. It's not bad, because we're like brothers, like, dude, we're going to feed you. It was a back and forth thing. But there was always that one, there was always one staff that's too much by the book. Yeah. Corinna Harney-Jones (53:26) That's so funny. A butler's versus security. Echo Johnson (53:29) It starts out as bantering back and forth, you know. And then I ended up working, you know, they were going to move me to security before HEF died. So actually I was supposed to be security before HEF died. And then our evil corporate spy manager that came in. Oh, that guy. Yeah, they offered it and they took it away from me. because I did moonlight security outside of the house, I did armed security, armed protection work. And so I would tell head of security, Corinna Harney-Jones (53:31) Yeah, yeah. Echo Johnson (53:57) I think Joe had already passed away, Papa Joe. So it was Rick. And I said, you know what, I do it outside of here. You guys run short and you hire these guys coming outside the house. But these guys don't know the names, the faces, the voices on the rock. said, I'll them you. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so I'm not full-time butler. Even if I worked three or four days a butler that week, Rick said, just give me a call. So they went through the, you know, the machinations they had to, got approval for me to do both butler and security. And that's what that Andy guy came in and he's... came to me and said, Nope, you're either Butler or security. And I said, well, I'm not leaving this gig. I'm sorry, but that man, and I guess, I guess really anybody coming into Playboy that wasn't aware of how it was operated. And you know, he was big time corporate. And so he just saw all that and was like, Oh, this is a shit show. This got to go. This got to go. Nope, nope, nope. was looking forward to staying there all the way through with HEF passing away. And, and then Crystal's mom preferred anybody who would smoke and drink with her. Crystal told us not to give her mom any alcohol or anything like Yeah, I heard her mom was a big drunk. Yeah, so then as they were letting go butlers, I kind of thought I'd be doing security. So there was a lapse there and then Rick stayed on it with me. then so when I started doing security, I actually started with Darren Metropolis, the new owner, not with... Corinna Harney-Jones (55:17) security echo when we went up to the rock after Metropolis bought the mansion? Echo Johnson (55:23) Good one. It was one of us. It was one of us. Why? What'd you do? What'd you do? What'd you do? Did you flash somebody? we pulled up to the back gate and we said that we were here to take care of the monkeys there's no monkeys here. Corinna Harney-Jones (55:36) want to pet the peacocks or whatever. Echo Johnson (55:38) how long after he died. OK, those were those were Darren's brothers. Yeah, they were they were they were not having any of it. And they were like kids. I I trained my replacement. Yeah, so they brought in security to take over and. Corinna Harney-Jones (55:40) four years since he passed, maybe three years. Okay. Wow. They didn't know what to think. I bet there's so many people that do what Echo and I did because it was the Playboy Mansion. The people that used to go to the Rock probably do that occasionally. Echo Johnson (55:57) which remains silent. They probably still do. They probably still do. Yeah. so you said, and, I've also heard this from other people that like HEFs' health rapidly declined very, very quickly. Right. And was that a matter of like a year? two years, like what was, and it was all during that time that the guest list was being closed down, all the key people that he knew that had been in the mansion forever were just fired without cause. They didn't even tell HEF. So HEF would go looking for these people and they're gone. And they wouldn't let us transfer the phones upstairs. Right. And I heard that, that he wasn't allowed to do it. I did a couple of them. Don't you, don't you think that by, I mean, obviously a combination of old age, he did have a very bad back. Corinna Harney-Jones (56:29) Yeah. Echo Johnson (56:49) because he never worked out in his life and he was always hunched over either on the floor or whatever editing as we know. But that right there of cutting everybody off definitely aided in his rapid decline. That would be a safe bet if you knew anybody in Vegas, I can place the bet for you. Yeah. Yeah. No, it happened relatively quickly. Yeah. And then it left a Corinna Harney-Jones (57:07) Mmm. Echo Johnson (57:14) Everything that happened left a lot of room for speculation. ⁓ absolutely. Which is sad. Yeah. None of it makes sense. And we, and, so us butlers, a lot of us thought that there should have been a full course or full press with, with family. Yeah. Corinna Harney-Jones (57:29) Intervention. Yes, like someone to come in and in Echo Johnson (57:34) I think family should literally say, I'm coming in. I mean, and they even had a hard time getting to their dad, the boys. Yep. And Christie. Yep. But at some point you just, you know, the black flag and you get your sword and you say, we're taking the fort. Yeah. That's. We're taking the fort and we're, know, and then if it goes to lawyers or whatever, whatever. But yeah, it happened relatively quick. And so they started firing different people. And then I guess laying off people who were the most expensive. So I wasn't on that scale. I stayed later than most only because I was probably the cheapest employee. Because I was pretty close. then when it was my time, I was kind of open to become security, but it didn't happen. So there was a lapse. So I was not employed there when HEF died Right, But it picked up right after that because Darren was waiting the wings to move into his house. And so it was still in the works, but there was a gap there where they kept the girls, kept Sheila, Kia. And I'm sure that would have been Crystal's mom wanting the girls. To clean. Just like when Carlina first got there, right? There weren't girl butlers. I wanted to ask you then, the health was like, that was pretty obvious and then we know that that's like, yeah. Yeah. It's dirty. It is dirty We know that. Yeah, we know that. It's literally dirty. we had to keep cleaning up after him too. And why does this old man have the window blown right across the room? Who keeps opening this window. Because we have to change his sheets every night. One of our joke scenarios would be Crystal's dad and her mom and Crystal's sitting down and this is after she leaves, you know, after she left the altar and having the mom crying in inconsolably Okay, And then Dad going, Lee What the hell? How much could you get for that ring? That's crazy. And then we just kind of figured that it was part ego, part stubbornness about him. why would he take her back? Yeah, didn't need her back And he would he he fell in love with the girls. He fell out fell in love with the girls and he would and he'd be upset if one left. And so it's almost like the more people that push him like good, she's out. It's almost like I'll show you. So I know I think Cooper, I know there was family that said, what are doing? Why are you taking her back? For sure. Yeah. And he let her back in and to do it that fast and get married. Yeah. that's just the, Saturday Night Live skit of Lee Lovett uncontrollably crying because she lost her golden goose. I mean that sums it all up right there. That's hysterical. Remember she finagled to get the listing as a real estate agent across the street. I didn't know that. I got pictures. She's a realtor? Well she went and got it. No fucking way. didn't know that. So California is 6 % commission and so she wouldn't allow. She wanted to get that bag. Right and I heard rumour that she wouldn't allow showings because she was waiting for a buyer to come in so she's already got the selling listing. There's 3%. You hold on for a buyer and now there's 6%. both commissions. I have thousands of pictures. before phones had cameras, I was sneaking cameras in Playboy. I got tons of pictures. I didn't know that you're a historian as well. Yeah. I'm a city historian for fun. But it's a description of it. Yeah. I mean, I'm an official city historian, but it's still. Descriptions, it's my hobby. So so that's why I collected so much stuff. I have paperwork every kind of I have everything you can imagine like paperwork documents That's cool. And I would always take extras as far as a HEFS Christmas cards. so I just I collected stuff but the pictures I took when I was there by myself I would be upstairs in the bedroom and not know what bedroom I'm in because all the walls are gone. The ceiling's gone. There's no furniture. just guts. You see, that's where he lied. He said there was a push. They were going to slap a historic marker on the house. That's what I thought they would did. It disappeared. How did it disappear? How did that disappear? he's a Pabst blue ribbon heir and everything else. was one city councilman, think, was pushing that hard. Oh totally. And that was just for historical, which it should be. It absolutely should have been. the genesis of Holmby Hills. And the guy who built the house, he owned Bullock's department stores, he owned Broadway. He was the that brought UCLA to town. He was the one developing Westwood. was a huge mover and shaker. And that's why the dog graveyard, he raised dogs. He was a big mover shaker. And so that house absolutely needed a historic tag on it. And so when Darren came in, I'm just going to, you know, it's an old house. need electric and water and power and it needs just to be renovated structurally. And he just completely ripped it all out. So all that beautiful woodwork, everything. All the plants. He got to a point where he wanted it to be just a barren house up on a hill. Why? Even the part where the state came in, because they have the top arborists would come in and you're going to kill these pine trees. have to pull the grass away from the tree. And then tried one time he tried to do a Fourth of July slip and slide. So they just got a bunch of tarps and went down the hill down the slope and then killed the grass. And he just wanted all the foliage out. He's just making it like his own. And that front lawn, what did he do with that? Did he build another structure there? There's multiple structures. Oh my God, what a disgrace. Such a beautiful property. was there because we thought we always joked or the conversation would come up, hope the foreigner doesn't come in here and rip this place down because it's the prime property. It's eight acres with Kim's house. And then he got there and we thought, God, this guy spent a million dollars and a HEF to sell a car, that old white car from Chicago days, the old Mercedes. with all the films. He bought that too. You know, we see the old black and white. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of my favorite. We that. Then he bought Kim's house. Great. Here's a here's an American guy that loves Playboy. he just has money to collect. That's what you think. He's going to collect. And he was collecting things Playboy. And his dad came in and lowered the price on the house. And anyway, so we thought, okay, we're good. He's just going to keep it. And then even when the when the historical tag didn't come, we thought, well, all right, we lost that. We're good, this guy's gonna keep everything. Like you really thought he would honor. And then the dumpsters came and he started ripping everything up. And then it got really weird. The last thing I did there, because he wasn't having any parties at all, he allowed Quentin Tarantino, when I was still there, have a rap party. For Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I did see that. And ironically, that led to us being pushed out, we were gonna be fired. So they gave us offers of severance. then, so we figured the word that was being whispered in his ear. was his brother saying, don't you use my security, which weren't security at all, they were punky kids that didn't know what they were doing. And then he said, they'd be cheaper, and then you don't want any Playboy here, so they want to get rid of all vestiges of Playboy. And so it was me, Greg Graves, and Jimmers, because Jimmer was a, Jimmy Eagle was a butler, long time when you were there, right, Jim Eagle. So it was me, Jimmy, and Greg Graves. And so we all took severance packages, and then we were training. Kids, they'd have a folded jacket and a blister pack flashlight from like Costco. They weren't security. You're kidding me. That is such a is bad because he was so paranoid. And because of that party with Tarantino, four or five towels went missing. Now we've got hundreds of people on property, grips, gaffers. You've got a movie production on site and a little handful of towels went missing. And you blame this. like dude, the rolling giant carts and our trucks are coming. It's all construction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some towels. Yeah. Maybe had his monogram on. Wasn't he friends with Cooper? Isn't that how he initially caught his eyes on? Because he would go over to Cooper's to Kimberly's house. And then he worked that angle. He worked that angle. And then and then so him and I got along great because I was lightning rod at the house for all things Republican or conservative. And so Cooper, every time we were together, Cooper tried to get me and Darren in arguments. This guy's a conservative. He loves race. And up with Chelsea, Clinton and them on the East Coast, for East Coast money. And even one time I had to walk Darren, I had to escort him and Cooper from the Jazz Festival all the way to the parking lot because his vehicle couldn't be there. And the whole way Cooper was working it trying to get me and him in an argument. That's funny. when he actually hired me, then he got quiet. I had no discussions with him after, but before, he'd be getting kicked out from security and he'd whistle. I'd say, you guys, that's your new boss That's funny. I remember once at the door, he's rapping on the door. like, there's a pony. he's like, I own this. door, we're like, there's parties you gotta go around, right? He's looking at me like this. I think was like 20. He owns the house. want to let him? Yeah, that's funny. But with Darren coming in, we all just started relaxing. friendship with Cooper once he had his thing just kind of with he got what he wanted out of it and carried on what year did he did he formally buy the mansion because I know that he had been trying to buy it for years it was just I think I think he only had to hold on two or three years and I don't know the exact and that was the agreement that HEF would die there and then he could come in that was the gamble if HEF lives five six years seven years you gotta deal with it it's not money houses they have plenty that yeah so it didn't matter yeah Huh, that's wild. So here's me and Cooper, know, right at the stage at the Jazz Festival. Oh, Cooper, looks just like his dad. Completely. So that's so we're all buddy buddy because I wasn't working for him there But once I said any actor like he didn't second. Yeah. Well, he just he just wouldn't he just wouldn't talk to you wouldn't engage You'd be like, yeah, he wouldn't engage. Hey, but he wouldn't get you but he sure engaged when I was a butler I joke that I want to sue him because they killed my fish That was so sad when you told me that. I know you told me that. can't believe that they killed all of the fish on top of that. Like, that's insane. That's that's that's much money that was alone. That's what I was going to Koi fish are 50 year old. Mm hmm. Because he didn't pay attention and the amigos, know, amigos are amigos, right? Covered it. It's Goodness, gosh, But if they would have done a fire sale it's amazing. But a lot of stuff walked out the door. A lot of stuff walked out the back door because when she started dumping stuff, I there was like, but this is, this painting is in the trash. It's like literally just everything. She was like, wow. And then, and they got to the point because I was, I would, they, they brought in one of the big dumpsters that you walk into. I would go up in there and just look for anything. And then it got to a point where, ⁓ lock it. so I was very good friends with Steve Martinez who worked up in the archives, know. You still talk to him? So, no, he won't talk to me now. He won't talk to anybody, but he was always telling me what was going on and when he got fired, he called me. was? Yes. Well, yeah, because he was very close with HEF thought he was going be the last one? Well, yeah, and then they wouldn't even let him say goodbye to HEF. Nothing. mean so he he was keeping me informed of everything that was going on within the company and He was my connection yeah, yeah, I'm the historian he knew that and I would give it I would give him items that I would get from my Hollywood stuff. I was giving them Prints and print and stuff like that and he'd say Dann this guy came in you should see what what I have in the archives like why so this guy did years with the work on the history of the mansion and the Chicago mansion HEF said toss it because if it didn't have anything to do him, hedidn't he would toss it. He kept on feeding me information. Really? So I knew all the stuff that was there that he would tell me about. so when I had to sit down with the lawyers from corporate, because I went and signed the last NDA, and they said, OK, if that's what the book you're working on, we'll give you the green light. And I didn't tell them. said, no, I know what's in the archives. Amanda to know what's in the archives. That's because Steve told me. didn't go through the archives. No. everything I needed from my, because I had a contract with two publishers, with History Press and Arcadia. They said, not unless I can get the foundation photos. Yeah. That they would say, we don't have those photos. Oh, yes, you do. Oh, you do. of course, when he got fired. Well, and he got so fucked because he got C.O.P.D. from the mold that was in the house and he never smoked. never did anything like that. And then he got C.O.P.D. And then none of his medical was taken care of. And then they fired him and like gave him a plaque for like the like worker of the week or something. And they said, you're fired. Yeah, I think ultimately that's why Steve stopped talking to everyone because it broke his heart. Number one, it shattered him as it should be. And then he got so, so sick. And yeah, he just he cut off all For years, when I was starting this, was like trying to get in touch with him and he just nada I always waited for him to show up the reunion. Anyway, ⁓ but then when that all fell apart the pictures they they required 200 to 250 pictures per book I couldn't get five Five you couldn't get five. No, and that's a deep rabbit hole That's a deep rabbit hole when you try to find pictures of anything around the world that was made doesn't matter if it's world's fair from 1800s to sure you can't find photos Only photo I found of that 1926 house. Yeah, I know that you're talking about the one up on the hill Yeah, yeah, know, there's a one that was in the newspaper and it's just a scaffolding. So that was a ploy that governments all around the world, they put scaffolding up on existing buildings. Here's pictures of us building the building. Interesting. There's no pictures of the building. That's only 26, that's not that long ago. No, it's not. I found that odd too, why there was not more pictures of it. Buildings they claim they build in a year and you go back and you start studying, like there weren't even trucks built then. There was no power tool. well, part of my trying to find out any photos of that house, especially when there's amazing things we've done. That was such a big deal. Yeah. Starting Holmby Hills. It was the only place there. Yeah, there should be a lot more documentation about that. the house was built in 1926. I know that. Was the mansion haunted? No. OK, And I just have a lot of fun with that. Yeah, I've heard that. was all over that property. And, and remember, I'm the only one on the property right, For such a lively home that was never dark and always lively to walk around all that property. you're the only one that's got to weird. Yeah, I'm through the house and it's all lights out. There's no lights. Dark if, if there was going to be hauntings I'm down in the basement. There's no lights. Yeah. Go down with the flashlight in the basement with no lights. Yeah. At three in the morning. I hate that you had to see the mansion though. It was weird. What it turned into because I, that's not something I'd ever want to see. I just want to remember how it was. tons of pictures in it. You showed me a few at the marks and I was like, I don't want to see anymore. hurts my heart. It was so weird to be in a silent house. Yeah. And if it's two, three in the morning, it's silent and there's the birds don't even make a noise. Right. It's like dead. It's soulless. Dead. But there's no, just like when I first got there, oh, Arthur Letts' daughter jumped from that balcony and she's the one that haunted the house. Oh yeah, that's what I heard. Letts never had a daughter. It could have just, it could have just said, did Arthur Letts ever have a daughter? Oh my gosh, how interesting. I used to tease some of them that were sure that it was haunted. I'd hide behind doors and stuff like that. people. That's great. I was there for so long at night. Even when HEF was alive. I'm still there walking all over the property at two, three in the morning, four in the morning. It's like aliens. I see. So they picked the middle of Wyoming and the alien ship landed and then yeah, it's confiscated you and a cow, It's like now. Everyone's got a phone. Where's all the big pictures? Everybody's got a phone. So the problem with history, is technology destroys lies. And so the liars panic and the liars either alter their lives or find other excuses. Because you go down history and you can... could almost be sure that virtually everything you've been told is a lie. It's a lie. Almost everything. Almost everything. that's why you have to you have to have the constitution or the desire or just the ones people that hate being lied to and you go down rabbit holes so I had to go down the one of the mansion like no photos of 1926 house okay this guy started Westwood brought UCLA Bullocks Broadway did all the stuff and he's building this great mansion on the top of the hill nothing you got that one picture right. There were no there was no press or photographers or newspapers Yeah, right. were everywhere. That's and then interesting dark and dirty guys know that it's not haunted if it was I'm the most unlucky person in the that never said that I never got to see thank you so much for coming on the show And all the background on the mansion is super interesting, the historical aspect. So first question, three words that define Hugh Hefner to you. 3 words Can I can join words? Sure. One word is have your river of have your. OK, there's work called have your. What is that? There's work and there's work called. Kaken, very of Kaken and there's another word called. Corinna Harney-Jones (1:14:38) No, happy. Echo Johnson (1:14:47) eat it too. Have your cake and eat it too. Have your cake and eat it too. His whole life. He was able to do what every man does. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Okay, honey. So you move next door you watch my kids. I got my girls here. You girls stay up there. I'm down with my friends. My daughter really looks good. You run the company. I get my cake. I don't care about the world outside. I want to have my cake and eat it too. And so if every man could, you watch my kids. Yeah, stay next door. Corinna Harney-Jones (1:14:54) Yeah Yeah Echo Johnson (1:15:14) You're in my company in Chicago, Christie. Yep. He certainly designed his. Corinna Harney-Jones (1:15:19) You're in You're right. Echo Johnson (1:15:23) Have your Have your cake. love that too. Have your cake. And you know what? I still do things, I think about him all the time because like I said, a historian, you learn from the older folks. There's a reason why he got to where he was. Not just successfully, but things you do in life. Like, yeah, I would want to do that. I mean, absolutely. He designed his life exactly like he wanted to live it. yeah. Why does he do that? Because he can. Because he can. He doesn't want to go outside. Corinna Harney-Jones (1:15:25) That was him! 100 %! Yup. Echo Johnson (1:15:51) He doesn't want to go to the Kentucky Derby. That's the PR department saying, get out there. Yeah. Yeah. Canne Film Festival. He didn't want to go to the film festival. no. But in general, he had his cake in the ate it in all things. then second question. Had you had the opportunity to see HEF or say anything to him before he passed? What would you say? I was going to thank him. Yeah, that's always the answer. Corinna Harney-Jones (1:15:55) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a- Just lift. Echo Johnson (1:16:16) It's just thank you. Yeah. Thank you for including me on this journey. Some did. Yeah. Some did. I didnt Corinna Harney-Jones (1:16:23) Thank you so much, Dann. What a privilege to hear just pieces of, you know, and you're part of that history, you know, we're all part of that history. So it is fun. Echo Johnson (1:16:28) Well, thank you. There's tons. There's tons. mean, yeah. of pieces and there's so much, you you can grab, can grab the valet guys, their stuff. It's an endless list. Every, every department has their stories. Corinna Harney-Jones (1:16:42) Yeah. Goodbye. Echo Johnson (1:16:45) All right, everybody, thanks for tuning in. We will see you Bye bye.